NK: It’s been three years from when I started. I hadn’t intended to do a book. When I had taken the photograph of my girlfriend and she saw a part of herself that she had always viewed as negative as something that really was beautiful, it had a powerful impact on her. It allowed her to reclaim part of herself. From there, it was word of mouth. I had women from various women’s groups asking to be photographed. For a lot of them, the images permitted them to deal with their own body issues.

A-M: How many women did you photograph?

NK: Well over a hundred. I never had to advertise or pay anyone. The feedback from the women was so positive. They felt like I was doing them a favour. It was sad seeing how much anger, hurt and oppression there was out there for so many of the women. Some of the women had battled diseases and sexual abuse that they had disowned their sexuality. They treated this as a way of taking it back. For others, there was a comfort in knowing how uniquely different they all were and that it was normal and okay.

A-M: What was the criteria for inclusion in the book?

NK: Well, people have their preferences. Most want a cleaner look. I like the more well-endowed. I picked my favorites based on personality and on stories. Some of the stories were important. These women trusted me with their deepest fears and secrets. By including them in the book I felt like I was honouring their trust. Dr. Hahn and his wife picked the rest. We also had to ask ourselves when is too much, too much. We decided on forty-eight as a total.

A-M: In your promotional DVD, your mother opened the book and closed it quite quickly. She seemed uncomfortable. Also, in your acknowledgements in the book, she asked you why you needed to do this. Has she changed her perspective?

NK: Yes, definitely. My mother looks at it quite differently. She is much more open with discussing sexuality. She and my dad talk to each other about it. She still has a hard time looking at the images. For some people, it is still sacred, but it opens up discussions about sex that is not sexually charged.

A-M: I think for many people, it is very sexual. How do you take the sex out of it?

NK: Yes it is very sexual, and that was the challenge…to not make it so sexual. By shooting in black and white then toning in sepia, it created a comfortable distance. People could stop, look and appreciate it. In women’s workshops, they teach you that it is one of the most powerful parts of your body. For many of the women we talked to, it allowed them to take control of their bodies. It was a safe situation and many found it healing. Some women wrote about the experience.

A-M: I also noticed in the DVD that you did not get any male perspectives, other than from art critics. Why is that?

NK: I had received so much resistance about being a man and doing this book that I think I over-compensated. I felt that I needed to prove my sensitivity to the subject so I focused my attention on the female perspective. My friend, Beck Peacock, is the one who insisted that I shouldn’t apologize for being a man and that I should own it. So in our next promo DVD, it will have a more balanced approach.

A-M: I understand that you will be coming up to Victoria in August. Have you ever been to Canada before?

NK: I came to Canada last summer. It was the first time that I had been here. I came to Victoria and went as far as Campbell River. It also included a trip to Vancouver. I absolutely loved it.

A-M: What exactly did you love about it?

NK: I love the Canadian people. They are friendlier, freer and more intelligent. Your artistic community is so well supported up there.

A-M: You will be holding your book signing at Freedom Erotica Art Gallery. What does freedom mean to you?

NK: Freedom to me means the freedom to be ourselves. To discover and explore without censure and limitations. In getting this book out I learned a lot about people and their attitudes. When I couldn’t find a publisher to take on this project, I decided to self-publish. And then, I couldn’t get a printer. I went to eleven printers in California and they wouldn’t touch it. They all said that they had a lot of females on their staff and they didn’t want to offend them. I had to have the book printed in Korea because no one in California would print it.

A-M: Many people consider California a very liberal state. I find it quite surprising that you would get that kind of controversy over there.

NK: It is a very sexually charged part of a woman’s body. That is why I took great efforts to not make it so sexual, to soften the image. Colour would have been too raw, too real. It suggests pornography and I wanted to distance myself from it. The anonymity helped too. By keeping it anonymous, the women were able to look at each other. The comments led to healthy open discussions. People can’t grow and change until we can discuss touchy subjects like religion, death and sexuality.

A-M: Very well said. I found the book quite fascinating and it definitely led to some frank discussions about sex and body image with the women in my circle. What is the most important thing you got out of this experience?

NK: As a man, I was surprised at how little women knew of themselves and that part of them. In my curiosity, I attended many women’s group lectures to learn about their attitudes to their sexuality. There are a lot of negative feelings out there that many women have towards themselves. In crafting this book, I was in awe at the positive impact that it created for the women who were part of it.

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AN INTERVIEW: NICK KARRAS
with Richard Beck Peacock

BP: Vaginas are so richly graced with color. Why did you choose to shoot this subject in black-and-white?

NK: There’s nothing more colorful than nature’s landscapes. However Ansel Adams shot his mountains of Yosemite and other vistas of the West in black-and-white. And Edward Weston chose black-and–white for his nudes. Someone once said that black-and-white photography is like reading: the reader supplies the color and other sensations. That’s part of its peculiar enjoyment.

BP: Did you first experiment with color?

NK: Yes, and I didn’t like it. Depending on your intentions, color is an overload with some subjects, a distraction in a way. The vulva is almost too powerful when shot in color – to me it suggests pornography. It can be too real. The viewer gets drawn into a purely sexual response to the subject. That isn’t what I was aiming for here. In my research I noticed that women looking at similar material would hurry through brightly lit, full color shots of vaginas, yet they tended to slow down and study black-and-white photos. Perhaps color unconsciously registers as vulnerability and it’s scary. I suspect that one is inclined to be overwhelmed by the vibrant shades of vaginas and not pay attention to their exquisite lines and other subtle physical characteristics.

BP: So your intent was to create a different aesthetic?

NK: Not at the start. I discovered my motive as the work developed. There’s much more depth in black and white. This mode of photography plays in the gray scale from white to black. You use these values to create separation and depth. Black-and-white renders those qualities very strongly. When I worked on the prints, I was much more aware of the contours and composition of each woman’s pussy – its solemnity.

BP: Your work, however, is actually presented in a sepia tone.

NK: True, I shot them with black and white film but then toned them more softly. I think that pure black and white, for this subject, is a bit harsh. Sepia is softer. This tone also creates a more suitable and thoughtful distance.

BP: What were some intimidating issues in doing the book?

NK: The biggest problem was creating a work that distanced itself from pornography. I found that most women didn’t like seeing themselves or others in photography that looks raw. When I first started shooting, the results were unsatisfactory. I wasn’t using lighting to the best advantage. But after much playing with the different elements – the right paper, tone, and texture – the results were fascinating. It was a big learning curve for me.

BP: What about criticism that argues against objectifying the female body by showing only its most private part?

NK: The same general critique was made of a photographic show by the late Irving Penn at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. In his erotic nude series, Penn beautifully portrayed only limited angles of the female body, yet every photo conveys an essential truth about each woman photographed. There’s a time, place, and situation for deconstruction. For two hours on stage in The Vagina Monologues, Eve Ensler presents women’s pussies (her term) as its sole subject – not women’s educational accomplishments, maternal concerns, or aesthetics of fashion. She has been applauded for her contribution to female consciousness, and rightly so.

BP: How did this whole project start for you? What inspired you?

NK: It’s an interesting story. As an adolescent, I picked up a girly magazine and there was one very unusual picture in it – a shot from behind of a nude woman showing her vagina, one with unusually long lips. I was enchanted. I cut out the picture and carried it in my wallet for years. It was always a sure-fire turn on for me. Eventually the faded photo finally just fell apart! But in the back of my mind I looked for a woman with that configuration from then on.

BP: An unusual search.

NK: I suppose so. I never found such a one until an important lover entered my life, many years later. The first time I saw her naked I was totally infatuated. But it was frustrating because I didn’t feel free to compliment her on the look and shape of her pussy. I couldn’t say, “Gee, you have wonderfully large lips.”

BP: Of course the reverse is not true, if a man is well endowed, a lot of women wouldn’t hesitate to say, “Wow, I really love the shape and size of your cock.”

NK: So true. I felt blessed being with this lover. I was totally enamored by her full lips. But I never said anything to her. Finally I couldn’t hold back my visual delight. She would emphatically indicate that this was not a subject that she wanted to talk about. Finally she told me the saddest story; when she was fifteen years old her dislike for the lips of her vagina was so strong that she called a doctor to see if he would remove them. Luckily, the doctor said, “Young lady, don’t do anything. Wait for ten years and if you still feel the same way, call back.” As the years went by, if a lover would make any reference to the look of her vagina, she would invariably still take it negatively.

BP: How did she break out of that self-deprecating mode?

NK: I soon realized that it was hard for her to envision herself as I did. So with my camera, I put my focus there. I shot a lot of what I thought was beautiful erotic photography. Every now and then, when she got a little daring I would ask her if I could show her, by means of my photography, what I saw – the unique beauty of her womanhood. It didn’t work at first. I photographed her every which way, but could never capture exactly what I saw. And she liked nothing that I shot. But I stayed with it. If my art form was to have any credibility, I felt that I had to translate onto film the visual image that always struck me as something quite beautiful. One day I finally got it! I lovingly toned the photograph in the dark room and then showed the picture to her. Amazed, she smiled, “Now that’s pretty, in fact that’s very sexy!” At last, she really got to see what I see.

BP: Where did it go from there?

NK: The simple truth is that because she was proud of the pictures of her genitals she allowed me to show them to a few select people. In letting other women and couples look at the photos, they got the idea of what I was after in my work. And so other women were eager to discover through photography what they had concealed for so long.

BP: Was your lover a help to you in pushing the project forward?

NK: Yes. She was my first inspiration. Her encouragement allowed me to explore the subject more fully. She always stimulated me with new ideas and gave practical help by making women feel comfortable. It turned out to be sort of an underground sisterhood.

BP: Men have always been enamored with graphic images of a woman’s body, what did women seem to discover in these images?

NK: I found that most women are secretly very interested. It’s amazing because I’ve shown the pictures to many who said they’ve never really seen another woman’s vagina. Unlike guys, women rarely see what another female really looks like -- except for a tuft of hair -- because of the very physiological location of their genitals. They really become fascinated with the variety of configurations when seen at such close range.

BP: Is it a positive reaction?

NK: Yes. Women love to talk about sex. And after viewing this collection, I’ve noticed that women become increasingly curious about each other’s genitals. They either say, “Oh God, I thought we all looked the same”, or they say, “Oh God, I thought I was abnormal but that one looks a lot like mine.” That level of the conversation is healthy, I believe.

BP: How did you actually arrange the photo sessions?

NK: It varied. If the woman’s husband or partner were present, I asked if he would want to be part of the process. Usually the man would welcome the situation because he knew her body so well and it felt safe. It was interesting to hear him describe the intimate sexual geography of his lover. A caring man cherishes and, in a sense, protects that part of his woman’s body. As a rule, men get lost in women. It amazes me that some women don’t quite understand that.

BP: You must have had an interesting array of shooting situations.

NK: Every photo in the book has a different story. Actually, the women who were photographed here became my strongest advocates. Typically a woman would tell her friends at work about her night in front of the camera and they became excited, perhaps challenged, then wanted to be photographed. That’s how a lot of it went – word of mouth. It’s a big step, but I’ve found out that almost all women love the camera. They truly seem to enjoy the attention inherent in photography.

BP: What was the essential challenge for these women?

NK: In these photo situations, I’m asking her not just to take her clothes off, but to fully expose her most intimate feminine self. But just because a woman opens her legs doesn’t mean her genitals are fully expressed. When a woman is doing the routine things of life, her genitals are in neutral, so to speak. As she gets turned on, all of the vagina’s hidden shapes gradually appear and take on new definition. Whatever her previous personality, it now changes. What is so interesting to me in these pictures is that women are willing to reveal themselves so honestly.

BP: That’s a pretty basic place to start.

NK: It was a wonderful place to start. It allowed me to experiment with many photographic techniques. Even more, I learned a lot about women. Many women would freely tell me about the most basic feelings relating to their genitals. Each person had her own special language to describe, for example, the nature of her arousal and sexual satisfaction.

BP: And each vaginal expression is different.

NK: Absolutely, as you can see in the photos. Every woman is truly unique and, one could say, her singularity starts here.

BP: Were there surprises for you during the project?

NK: To be specific, I was surprised that so many women shave. Some women seem to think that hair makes their vulva unattractive. Personally, I like the variety of hair patterns; visually it’s very interesting. But aesthetics of the body are always changing.

BP: Are some photographs more interesting than others for you?

NK: One woman I interviewed after she studied the pictures said that it’s like looking at faces. It’s true. There’s such a distinct personality in each one. Moreover, I’ve come to believe that the woman who is proud of her vagina also tends to reflect that confidence in the rest of her personhood.

BP: That’s saying a lot.

NK: True, but I have sensed that a woman’s attitude toward her vagina – I mean how she feels when she actually looks at herself – gets translated into how she functions in her world. I can’t prove this of course. But certainly research tells us that a healthy attitude toward sex is generally matched by a robust sense of well-being. I didn’t go into this activity with any preconceived opinions, but I’ve come out of the experience with many new realizations about the importance of how women perceive themselves physically, especially at that special place of my camera’s interest.

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